Lyrics in 2 languages and expression marks in italics

[snake_cake]

Hi! I composed a choral piece and now have decided to add an English translation. According to Gould's book, I should add the new lyrics in italics, but then I noticed how the expression marks become almost indistinguishable from the English lyrics. I always thought the main purpose of using roman type for the lyrics and italics for the expressions was a way of differentiating them, so now I don't know what to do.

Ideas? Maybe use a different font? Thanks.

[Schonbergian]

I think the problem would be ameliorated if you moved the two lines of lyrics closer to each other and moved the dynamics closer to the staff. This is one reason that dynamics in choral music are often placed within the stave.

[OCTO]

You should use a different font for the expression.
Also, move closer the lines, as Schonbergian said.

Look at the BASSO: it is totally "unacceptable" to have lyrics closer to the piano part. Syllables and notes represent one, single, undivided information.

[LSL2026]

Check out this post:

viewtopic.php?t=1479

One poster likes having the font for expressions look more like the dynamics, and another (like me) likes having them different enough to stand out (I still want a somewhat similarly styled p and f, etc. but not exactly the same).

Usually the expression font is "the same size” as the dynamics - what I mean is, an “m” in both would have the same height.

Looks like these are all 10 point - make the expression 12 point? Worth a try.

I agree about moving the text lines closer together, and where possible, closer to the music.

The same with the dynamics, closer to the staff where you can.

Getting more white space between the lowest line of lyrics for one staff, and the dynamics for the one below is going to help.

I wouldn’t be atypical to have everything aside from the “mf” that’s on the accented note much closer to the staff. The mf would “pop up” out of the plane of the rest. It has to because of the accent, but it’s also forcing everything else up because it wants to try to keep everything on the same plane.

Otherwise, the staves may have to come apart a bit more…but hopefully you get things closer to their respective staves and that’ll help.

[Magnus Johansson]

Hello! I think you should separate the staves more and shrink the gap between the two lyrics lines a little, and move the upper lyrics closer to its stave, especially for the bass. No need to change fonts.

[OCTO]

I feel that the italic text (the translation) is hard to read, at least for me.  It appears to be "slanted" rather than "italicized".

Here are my fonts.

Tempo: Computer Modern (Latex original)
Lyrics: Minion, (equally emboldened by myself)
Expression: Old Music Standard (equally emboldened Old Standard)
Music: Wolfgang (SCORE fork)

Screenshot 2026-07-06 at 19.56.50.png (391.5 KiB) Viewed 1307 times

Screenshot 2026-07-06 at 19.56.31.png (263.3 KiB) Viewed 1307 times

[Magnus Johansson]

Nice looking score, Djuro, but what kind of whole notes in tenor and bass voices equal 9 eighth notes?

[OCTO]

No idea.

Edit: I think I wanted to have different beats, so this 9/8 is 4-beats measure, not 3. But I couldn't find solution for displaying only "4" as a TS.  Quarter is 84, not dotted quarter.

[David Ward]

I'm finding this thread difficult to follow as I get this (see the screenshot). Apparently this message is specific to the UK and I could get round it by using a VPN and pretending to be in, say, Ireland; but why?

(I have no difficulty reading other musical examples on this or any other forum or website.)

[OCTO]

I'm finding this thread difficult to follow as I get this (see the screenshot). Apparently this message is specific to the UK and I could get round it by using a VPN and pretending to be in, say, Ireland; but why?

(I have no difficulty reading other musical examples on this or any other forum or website.)

I haven't seen anything similar in my life.
(I use VPN by default, only because I am constantly on move, or in different countries, or connecting to whatever/open wifi spots etc.)