Upside down downbow sign?

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harpsi
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Joined: 08 Oct 2015, 10:30

Upside down downbow sign?

Post by harpsi »

Hi all,

what could this symbol mean?
Skärmbild 2026-08-29 154155.png
Skärmbild 2026-08-29 154155.png (47.79 KiB) Viewed 320 times
The u-like symbol for unstressed comes to mind, but this one is square as you can see.
Orchestral music, beginning of 20th century or before, woodwind parts only (if that might be a clue).
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OCTO
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Re: Upside down downbow sign?

Post by OCTO »

If this is for woodwinds, I have no clue.  Could be something "personal".
Who is the composer, and the piece?

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harpsi
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Joined: 08 Oct 2015, 10:30

Re: Upside down downbow sign?

Post by harpsi »

Helena Munktell, Suite symphonique. It is from 1895.

I am leaning towards portato. She is not using any standard _-signs in the piece at all, just this square sign for a few notes in this particular movement.
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Magnus Johansson
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Re: Upside down downbow sign?

Post by Magnus Johansson »

Hello! Interesting. What woodwind instruments?
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harpsi
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Re: Upside down downbow sign?

Post by harpsi »

Flute, oboe and clarinet.
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Magnus Johansson
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Re: Upside down downbow sign?

Post by Magnus Johansson »

harpsi wrote: 30 Aug 2026, 08:22 Flute, oboe and clarinet.
Could it be a marcato sign?
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harpsi
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Joined: 08 Oct 2015, 10:30

Re: Upside down downbow sign?

Post by harpsi »

That could also fit the bill. There are lots of > and fz, this page is the only one with the square markings. For context, see attached the page in question. Probably marcato is more likely. There are two scores and one set of parts, all MS, all have the same markings.
Skärmbild 2026-08-30 110731.png
Skärmbild 2026-08-30 110731.png (617.59 KiB) Viewed 272 times
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OCTO
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Re: Upside down downbow sign?

Post by OCTO »

p: marking is so outdated.  I think it is from the baroque period, and abandoned very early.

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harpsi
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Joined: 08 Oct 2015, 10:30

Re: Upside down downbow sign?

Post by harpsi »

Outdated or not, she is using : for all abbreviations, also ff: dim: and fz: for instance. Also very common is chained slurs, not on this page though.
John Ruggero
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Re: Upside down downbow sign?

Post by John Ruggero »

Mozart and Beethoven also used the colon after dynamic indications. Perhaps it persisted in some quarters through the 19th century.

Given the p dynamic indication and context, it might be a mild accent somewhat less than a > much as some composers have used the tenuto sign for the mildest accent. It would be way to distinguish it this accent from the tenuto sign used only to indicate notes held for full value.
Last edited by John Ruggero on 04 Sep 2026, 21:28, edited 1 time in total.
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