NOTATIO

Posted: **22 Oct 2016, 21:13**

I agree with you about the position of the dot, MJCube. As you say, it would be too far away if positioned under the other dot. And in this case, having the dot near the note could help the eye thread its way through the complexity of the voice leading.

Posted: **23 Oct 2016, 21:24**

Here is an edited Finale version of the excerpt which brings the note-heads closer together than in the Dorico default and moves the dot under discussion:

: Finale complete version.jpg (26.64 KiB) Viewed 10149 times

Posted: **24 Oct 2016, 01:16**

Thanks, John – I like it! What is your opinion of breaking the secondary beams for the last eight 32nd notes?

Posted: **24 Oct 2016, 02:16**

Thank you, MJCube, I appreciate that.

I think that Arnstein was correct in thinking that strictly on practical grounds one should always break secondary beams to clarify such patterns when they appear in orchestral parts. He always broke secondary beams for groups of 8 16ths or 32nds into 4 + 4, 12 into 4 + 4 + 4 etc.

However, when such patterns appear in solo or chamber music, it would depend on what the composer is expressing. I can imagine cases where secondary beam breaks would be visually disruptive and suggest an inner accentuation where none is desired. Examples by JS Bach come to mind:

: Bach Beaming.jpg (239.68 KiB) Viewed 10145 times

But what is your opinion?

Posted: **24 Oct 2016, 06:53**

This is done in MuseScore 2
Before edit:

: shot.jpg (100.35 KiB) Viewed 10139 times

After 11 edits:

: shot 3.jpg (101.26 KiB) Viewed 10137 times

What is the standard in Dorico, and how many editing steps is needed?

Posted: **24 Oct 2016, 07:54**

LilyPond output:

: LilyPondMes13.png (65.37 KiB) Viewed 10124 times

The code:

Code: Select all

\version "2.19"

\layout {
  indent = 0
}

\markup\italic "Default output:"
{
  \clef "G_8"
  \key a\major
  \omit Staff.TimeSignature
  <<
    { 
      \voiceOne
      | % mes.13
        b16 cis'32 d'! e'8 d'16 cis' b8
        cis'16 b32 cis' d' e' fis' g' a' e' g' fis' e' d' cis' b
    } \\
    {
      \voiceThree
      | % mes.13
        gis!8. a16 fis a a gis s2
    } \\
    {
      \voiceTwo
      | % mes.13
        e8. cis16 d!8 e a,2
    }
  >>
}

\markup\italic "After two edits:"
{
  \clef "G_8"
  \key a\major
  \omit Staff.TimeSignature
  %% Edit 1:
  \set Timing.beamExceptions = #'()
  \set Timing.beatStructure = 2,2
  <<
    { 
      \voiceOne
      | % mes.13
      %% Edit 2:
        \offset positions #'(1.4 . 1.4) Beam
        b16 cis'32 d'! e'8 d'16 cis' b8
        cis'16[ b32 cis' d' e' fis' g' a' e' g' fis' e' d' cis' b]
    } \\
    {
      \voiceThree
      | % mes.13
        gis!8. a16 fis a a gis s2
    } \\
    {
      \voiceTwo
      | % mes.13
        e8. cis16 d!8 e a,2
    }
  >>
}

\markup\italic "Alternative after three edits:"
{
  \clef "G_8"
  \key a\major
  \omit Staff.TimeSignature
  %% Edit 1:
  \set Timing.beamExceptions = #'()
  \set Timing.beatStructure = 2,2
  <<
    { 
      \voiceOne
      | % mes.13
      %% Edit 2:
        \offset positions #'(.8 . .8) Beam
        b16 cis'32 d'! e'8 d'16 cis' b8
        cis'16[ b32 cis' d' e' fis' g' a' e' g' fis' e' d' cis' b]
    } \\
    {
      \voiceThree
      | % mes.13
      %% Edit 3:
      \offset positions #'(-.6 . -.6) Beam
        gis!8. a16 fis a a gis s2
    } \\
    {
      \voiceTwo
      | % mes.13
        e8. cis16 d!8 e a,2
    }
  >>
}

I see that both MuseScore and LP have the same horizontal dots alignment.

Posted: **24 Oct 2016, 09:30**

Actually, MuseScore 2 can do with less edits. I counted EACH item that has to be moved, yet these can be multiple selected and edited with ONE command.

Posted: **24 Oct 2016, 10:55**

Well actually, to be honest, I need some other edits to reach the Finale output (whit a pseudo Dorico G clef for the fun):

: LilyPondMes13Alter.png (52.29 KiB) Viewed 10110 times

The code:

Code: Select all

\version "2.19"
%% Not needed:
%\include "myTools.ily"
%\dorico

\layout {
  indent = 0
}

global = {
  \clef "G_8"
  \key a\major
  \time 2/2
  \numericTimeSignature
  %\omit Staff.TimeSignature
}

\markup\italic "Default output:"
{
  \global
  <<
    { 
      \voiceOne
      | % mes.13
        b16 cis'32 d'! e'8 d'16 cis' b8
        cis'16 b32 cis' d' e' fis' g' a' e' g' fis' e' d' cis' b
    } \\
    {
      \voiceThree
      | % mes.13
        gis!8. a16 fis a a gis s2
    } \\
    {
      \voiceTwo
      | % mes.13
        e8. cis16 d!8 e a,2
    }
  >>
}

\markup\italic "After two edits:"
{
  \global
  %% Edit 1:
  \set Timing.beamExceptions = #'()
  \set Timing.beatStructure = 2,2
  <<
    { 
      \voiceOne
      | % mes.13
      %% Edit 2:
        \offset positions #'(1.4 . 1.4) Beam
        b16 cis'32 d'! e'8 d'16 cis' b8
        cis'16[ b32 cis' d' e' fis' g' a' e' g' fis' e' d' cis' b]
    } \\
    {
      \voiceThree
      | % mes.13
        gis!8. a16 fis a a gis s2
    } \\
    {
      \voiceTwo
      | % mes.13
        e8. cis16 d!8 e a,2
    }
  >>
}

\markup\italic "Alternative after three edits (lower beams):"
{
  \global
  %% Edit 1:
  \set Timing.beamExceptions = #'()
  \set Timing.beatStructure = 2,2
  <<
    { 
      \voiceOne
      | % mes.13
      %% Edit 2:
        \offset positions #'(.7 . .7) Beam
        b16 cis'32 d'! e'8 d'16 cis' b8
        cis'16[ b32 cis' d' e' fis' g' a' e' g' fis' e' d' cis' b]
    } \\
    {
      \voiceThree
      | % mes.13
      %% Edit 3:
      \offset positions #'(-.5 . -.5) Beam
      gis!8. a16 fis a a gis s2
    } \\
    {
      \voiceTwo
      | % mes.13
        e8. cis16 d!8 e a,2
    }
  >>
}

\markup\italic "Alternative after four edits (strict beaming):"
{
  \global
  %% Edit 1:
  \set Timing.beamExceptions = #'()
  \set Timing.beatStructure = 2,2
  %% Edit 4:
  \set strictBeatBeaming = ##t
  <<
    { 
      \voiceOne
      | % mes.13
      %% Edit 2:
        \offset positions #'(.7 . .7) Beam
        b16 cis'32 d'! e'8 d'16 cis' b8
        cis'16[ b32 cis' d' e' fis' g' a' e' g' fis' e' d' cis' b]
    } \\
    {
      \voiceThree
      | % mes.13
      %% Edit 3:
      \offset positions #'(-.5 . -.5) Beam
      %% Edit 4:
      \set strictBeatBeaming = ##t
      gis!8. a16 fis a a gis s2
    } \\
    {
      \voiceTwo
      | % mes.13
        e8. cis16 d!8 e a,2
    }
  >>
}

\markup\italic "Alternative after five edits (dots):"
{
  \global
  %% Edit 1:
  \set Timing.beamExceptions = #'()
  \set Timing.beatStructure = 2,2
  %% Edit 4:
  \set strictBeatBeaming = ##t
  <<
    { 
      \voiceOne
      | % mes.13
      %% Edit 2:
        \offset positions #'(.7 . .7) Beam
        b16 cis'32 d'! e'8 d'16 cis' b8
        cis'16[ b32 cis' d' e' fis' g' a' e' g' fis' e' d' cis' b]
    } \\
    {
      \voiceThree
      | % mes.13
        %% Edit 3:
        \offset positions #'(-.5 . -.5) Beam
        %% Edit 4:
        \set strictBeatBeaming = ##t
        gis!8. a16 fis a a gis s2
    } \\
    {
      \voiceTwo
      | % mes.13
        %% Edit 5:
        \once\dotsUp
        e8. cis16 d!8 e a,2
    }
  >>
}

Posted: **24 Oct 2016, 13:24**

Here are the 6 edits in the Finale version. Each edit is one action only and took only seconds to accomplish with my trusty mouse.

If I were using Dorico, it would have taken 7 edits, 4 to adjust the middle voice notes, 1 to adjust the dot on the lower voice, 1 to restore the secondary beam break, and 1 to raise the beam on the top voice. I have no idea how involved these edits would have been in Dorico.

: Finale steps.jpg (158.55 KiB) Viewed 10106 times

Posted: **24 Oct 2016, 19:41**

John Ruggero wrote: I have no idea how involved these edits would have been in Dorico.

Luckily, there's no need to fin that out, since it does most of them automatically, or with settings specified before entering the piece.
The only two exceptions are the beams in the upper voice and the augmentation dot (both 2 steps). Personally, I would never have offset the dot (but would have needed to spend the extra time aligning it if I was using Finale), so for me, that leaves a single step.

NOTATIO

Beaming conventions

Re: Beaming conventions

Re: Beaming conventions

Re: Beaming conventions

Re: Beaming conventions

Re: Beaming conventions

Re: Beaming conventions

Re: Beaming conventions

Re: Beaming conventions

Re: Beaming conventions

Re: Beaming conventions