string quad-stop question

[MichelRE]

If a string player (or someone very knowledgeable in string notation) could help me with this question, it would be immensely appreciated.

when writing a multi-stop, I've always written the first-played notes as grace notes, then the actual "on the beat" notes as "real" notes.

I've seen lots of old editions of orchestral works, like Beethoven, where 4-note multi-stops were simply notated as a 4-note chord.

I was recently told by a performer that they found the 4-note chord format a bit easier to read. (they mentioned that the size of the grace notes also made them difficult to read. they are the default size set by Dorico - 3/5 normal size - which does look a bit whispy to my eye as well.)

Has this type of notation evolved with time?

Is the more classical-era simple 4-note chord remained the standard? or is it now more usual to see chords marked with a mixture of grace and real notes?

I'm also wondering if I could continue using the grace note format BUT make those grace notes a bit larger? (ie: easier to read, maybe a 7/10 or 3/4 size?)

[JJP]

The grace notes imply that the bottom two notes should be given less emphasis. If that’s the sound you desire, then it’s fine. If all pitches should receive the same emphasis, then use the standard notation and place them on the same stem as a chord.

[MichelRE]

you see, I like the grace note notation because to me it indicates that the grace notes should be played distinct from the rest of the notes.
in the chord notation, to my eye, it implies that the notes should be played as quickly as possible, and as much "in one go" as possible.
it also allows for the musicians to consider dividing the notes amongst themselves, a practice that is far too common in orchestras.

[John Ruggero]

I believe you are correct about the difference. Here is a case where Chopin is distinguishing slower "demonstrative" rolled chords (with the squiggle) from those that are forced by the large spans (without squiggle) and should be somewhat concealed:

Chopin op 48 no 1.png (504.16 KiB) Viewed 69258 times

For some reason, I associate the grace note notation more with solo string playing and the solid notation with sectional.

Increasing the size sounds like a good idea. I use 65% instead of 60%.

[NeeraWM]

When a string player—in my case, cellist—is taught about chords, we start by saying that we cannot play more than 2 strings at a time, and we therefore need some "escamotage".
If 3 notes it should be either 2+2 with the middle in common or 1+2 (bass + 2 top). Very seldom we have 2+1 (2 lower + top).
If 4 notes it should always be 2+2.
General rule is to play them from bass to treble.
Now, I'm sure you were waiting for exceptions:
ONE
Bach Cello Suite 2 in d minor, BWV 1008, has, at the beginning of the Courante, a 3-note chord which has to be played from top to bottom.

Screenshot 2023-11-05 at 10.06.05.png (543.96 KiB) Viewed 69238 times

Notice how there is no wiggly vertical line with arrow to show it. One knows it has to be top to bottom thanks to the tie in the C-sharp.

TWO
One can strike 3 strings at the same time under the following conditions: the piece is reasonably fast, the dynamic is FF or above, the bow is placed near the fingerboard. Most notable example is the opening of Dvorak's Cello Concerto in B minor, Op. 104

Screenshot 2023-11-05 at 10.09.14.png (258.99 KiB) Viewed 69238 times

Notice how the exit of the chords run uses an acciaccatura. That's—how JJP mentioned—because the focus is on the top E as start of the new melodic line.

Notation-wise, chords should always be written with regular-size noteheads.
Arpeggio-lines are not needed unless you want each note to be played independently.
Another notation I've found that is nice is to have the bottom notes of a 4-note chord to have shorter duration noteheads, such as in this Sonata by Ries:

Screenshot 2023-11-05 at 10.18.06.png (103.74 KiB) Viewed 69238 times

This is similar in effect to the acciaccatura notation but, in my opinion, much more elegant.

In the end, what needs to be understood is that the top note(s) of a chord on string instruments come on the downbeat, while everything else steals time from the previous beat. This helps with the planning of bow divisions and also with ensuring the stomach of the listeners doesn't feel sick in a Bach Sarabande!

[Anders Hedelin]

I think the question how to notate the difference between a rather fast, unaccented beginning of a broken four-stop on a string instrument, and a more accentuated one, remains unanswered. John's comparison, interesting as it is, doesn't say much about string notation.

While four-stops, notated as chords without grace notes, in Bach's solo string music often are performed with characteristically heavy lower notes, I'm not sure about the same in more recent music. Listening to performances might indicate that the faster and lighter version is more in favour nowadays.

Now, if you would want the beautiful and expressively heavy "Baroque" four-stop, how to notate it today?

[John Ruggero]

In his piano music, Mozart also used the notation seen in the Ries Sonata in Neera's interesting post above.

Musings:

Some arpeggios are ornaments and have the usual rhythmic issue of ornaments; where to start them. If the ornament starts on the beat, it has a more rhythmically or melodically emphatic effect; if quickly before the beat, a lighter decorative effect. If between the beats, a connective effect (a less common effect for an arpeggio). Therefore once one has determined which of these three effects one thinks the composer intends, one knows where to start the ornament. I use this rule in all styles of music.

Other arpeggios are forced on the player by physical necessity, and the player tries to create the illusion of a solid chord. In this case, if the instrument is responsible for both soprano and bass lines, as in a solo cello or piano piece, then a decision has to be made which of these two important lines is to fall on the beat, which will give it more prominence. This varies depending on the situation. If the instrument is playing only the soprano or bass part, as in an ensemble piece, the decision is easier.

[OCTO]

In both cases you will hear a very similar sound, but MAYBE I would guess that the grace note has risk -- if it is what you want -- to be played before the beat. In the literature we can find so many different types, it is impossible to give a definitive answer.
There is a very beautiful chord in Ysaÿe: Sonata in D minor, Ballade, Op. 27, No. 3, on the first page.

Screenshot 2023-11-06 at 15.26.25.png (41.6 KiB) Viewed 69149 times

I played the sonata numerous times in my 20ths and I always remember the passionate joy in playing the chord. It looks terribly difficult, but it is not, and yes, it is "broken" twice. However, Ysaÿe had no need to notate all breaks.

Some violinists, like Henryk Szeryng, had ability to play chords in a such smooth manner, that you almost hear all tones simultaneously. Listen to his performance of solo Bach work. There are tricks how to make chords as smooth as possible, two are: having not too much tension of the bow-hair, having bridge specially flattened for Bach-performance, and one extra trick: have a very good right hand technique!

[Anders Hedelin]

I can't let go of the question of long or short chord breakings. As I understand it, OCTO, you prefer Szeryng's smooth and almost simultaneous chords, but I'd like your opinion about what's often heard in Bach performances. Take fx. this beginning of the first solo violin sonata by Bach:

Bach multi-stops.JPG (27.08 KiB) Viewed 69072 times

I just listened to Felix Ayo's recording (which I like very much), where he plays the chords with a rather long and accentuated first part of the broken chord, something like one 32nd-16th in duration.

As I understand it, this is partly due to the fact that you can't sustain more than two notes on a (modern) string instrument. So, in order to make the whole of a four-part chord clear, or important, you need to make the two bottom notes longer and more heavy, because they disappear when the top notes are played.

On the other hand, the 'heavy chord breaking' has a significance of its own, I think, to me conveying something of the proudness of much of Bach's music. Anyway I fell in love with that idiom already when young, and also tried to use in one of my compositions recently. So, I would appreciate some advice from a string player on how to notate the difference between that, and a smoother and lighter 'grace-note' version.

[OCTO]

Sorry for late reply.

Actually, in Bach time there was a certain type of bow, so called now, the baroque arched bow, that was able to play the sustained all strings together. The arched bow's hairs were kept taut by the player's thumb and loosened when performing chords. Numerous depictions from Bach's era showcase the curved bows prevalent in Germany at the time. An illustration by an organist capturing musicians in Freiberg Cathedral circa 1712 distinctly features outwardly-arched, German-style bows. This is corroborated by an engraving serving as the frontispiece to the Musikalisches Lexikon, edited by Bach's cousin J.G. Walther and published in 1732. Bach's choice to compose chords reflects his intent, aligning with the playing style of his contemporaneous musicians. Baroque literature frequently alludes to the arched German bow and the associated technique of applying thumb pressure on the hairs. Georg Muffat, in the preface to Florilegium Secundum (1698), described this technique: "When grasping the bow, most Germans play while pressing the hairs of the bow with the thumb as required, thus having the option of tightening the hairs or leaving them loose."
Nikolaus Bruhns (late 17 century), the organist in Husum, demonstrated remarkable skill by producing three and four-part polyphony on the violin, as reported by his contemporary Johann Matheson (1681–1764). Even Leopold Mozart, in his widely recognized violin anthology, advocates for the simultaneous execution of three-part chords with a single stroke of the bow. Paganini and his distinctive playing style were meticulously described by Carl Guhr, the Director of the Frankfurt Opera, in his 1829 violin anthology. Guhr closely observed Paganini's performances over an extended period, noting that Paganini, while playing his own compositions featuring numerous three and four-part chords, executed them simultaneously.

However today, it is EXTREMELY rare to see that bow in practice. What amazes me about Szeryng is his ability to compactly play 3-note chords, almost simultaneously. There are caprices written by Dont, the first one is just the chordal exercise, and one, mastering that caprice, can go into Bach Sonatas & Partitas easily. However, your example is commonly played as 2+2 notes, since it is a slow tempo. Someone plays 3+1 notes, having in mind the top melody line.