# and natural symbols

[OCTO]

(Separation from another thread)

I have problem with it is to much "italic", the horizontal lines are to much angled for my taste.

Thanks, Octo.

The angle on the horizontal bars of the is the same as on the , so changing one without the other, would make them less harmonious. Not all fonts use the same angle, but personally I like it this way.

Amazing optical illusion!

Because of the optical illusion above, I have feeling that they could also have different angles. I have checked some old scores and it looks that they differ...

Knut's example of Durand:

file.jpg (27.21 KiB) Viewed 14166 times

It would be definitely worth to investigate.

Knut, how about making less slanted "horizontal" lines of in your font? Just an experiment....!

[Knut]

Octo,

I find it interesting that you consider this an optical illusion, and perceive the and in my font as having different angles. In the case of Durand you quoted, I think the actually has a steeper angle than the , and this is not uncommon. Here are a few examples from different music fonts (my own included).

Accidentals.png (35.31 KiB) Viewed 14158 times

As you can see there are numerous approaches; some have identical angles, some have steeper angles on the sharp, some on the natural. For the sake of objectivity, I'll reveal the font names later.

Knut

[OCTO]

I can maybe guess the fonts. But trying to be objective I like the most first and second
But as a combined, humm.... maybe no 3.

I have some problems with accidentals in Bravura. I don't know why.

[Knut]

I can maybe guess the fonts. But trying to be objective I like the most first and second

That would give a combination with the being the steepest of the two, which is the opposite of what I thought you preferred.

It would be interesting if you could rate or characterize all the combinations.
That would give a better idea of your preferences.

[John Ruggero]

1 too wide and bold
2 too wide
3 very good
4 my favorite
5 also good, but the sharp is a little wide and the natural is a little too bold
6 too light

[OCTO]

My favorite combination among examples is no 3.

[Knut]

1 too wide and bold
2 too wide
3 very good
4 my favorite
5 also good, but the sharp is a little wide and the natural is a little too bold
6 too light

Thanks for chiming in with your characterizations, John.

It seems both of you like my original natural symbol the best. That's good.
The fonts are as follows (from left to right):
Emmentaler
Maestro
My font with modified sharp
My original versions
Bravura
November

IOW, Octo prefers my modified version, while john prefers the original. I could go either way, but I tend to like the homogenous look of the original, and really don't see why they should have different angles.

[OCTO]

And what is the modification? I can't see so clearly.

EDIT:
I see, less slanted. I like it therefore.

[Knut]

I see, less slanted. I like it therefore.

I thought you would.

I'll have to take some time too see whether I agree or not. It's very easy to second guess prior decisions late in the process without considering all the reasons that decision was made in the first place (It's been years since I designed these accidentals and I've used them in a number of scores).

The same thing goes for the noteheads. As I understand it, your only reservation is with the black notehead, correct?
As I stated in my last post in that thread, the Idea behind making them relatively circular is to have them be distinguished, referencing two major french publishers, but without making them inaccessible. Of course, if this is choice is unconventional to the point where the whole font is disregarded from actual use by too many potential users like yourself, with an eye for detail, I would have to reconsider.

[OCTO]

Right, it is not an easy decision!

I have concerns about the term "distinguished" - in my opinion it should not be to much distinguished so that it pops-out, instead it should be "complementary distinguished", so that nothing disturbs reading, yet they are as a complete font very distinguished.
As an example, Opus makes me really stressed when reading the score.

I have no idea how complementary symbols are made so that they create a harmonious font, but I guess it is a very challenging and demanding task.