Tantacrul Dorico video

Recommendations concerning notation and publishing software in a non-partisan environment.
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benwiggy
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Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 19:42

Tantacrul Dorico video

Post by benwiggy »

Joining Tantacrul's critiques of MuseScore and Sibelius, there's now what some would call a 'takedown' of Dorico.

https://youtu.be/S-3wEC6Fj_8

It's an hour long, so buckle up. However, in summary:

He makes some fair points about problems with Steinberg's installation process, Setup mode and a few other UI awkwardnesses, though some of his other complaints are basically untrue -- he's missed some key aspects of the program.
I suspect he would argue that these capabilities should have been more obvious in the UI, despite his 8-months of use.

He mostly focuses on the experience for new users who are trying to gain familiarity with the app at first go, rather than anyone who's taken the time to surf through some manual pages or watch any of the tutorial videos.

What is most interesting is that Tantacrul has, after his MuseScore critique, been employed by MuseScore as their Head of Design. He's a very talented UX designer, so I'm sure that MS will benefit massively.

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John Ruggero
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Re: Tantacrul Dorico video

Post by John Ruggero »

it was very amusing, Ben, which was nice at a time like this, and very informative. I laughed out loud during the buttons to activate buttons to activate buttons episode; it resonated that strongly with me after my experiences as a first time user. But what really impressed me was his astute comments regarding user interface. I felt like cheering when at the end he something to the effect that we are being asked to learn to use new software at a dizzying pace, and it is up to designers to make this as painless as possible. I hope that Dorico designers will take this to heart.

And when a UX designer with years of music notation software experience misses key elements in a program after 8 months of study and use, one wonders whose fault that really is.
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Florian
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Re: Tantacrul Dorico video

Post by Florian »

John Ruggero wrote:
25 Apr 2020, 19:35
And when a UX designer with years of music notation software experience misses key elements in a program after 8 months of study and use, one wonders whose fault that really is.
He can only have missed these things if he deliberately chose not to read the manuals or ask for help. Seriously, would any smart person do this when they're learning something as complex as music notation software? For eight months?!

No, there's no doubt that he's smart, so I suspect he very much knew all or at least most of these things but decided to go the more entertaining route.

I'm not saying he's wrong with everything, but you should take his videos as what they are: Entertainment. If he was only interested in making the software better he could have saved himself a lot of work by just raising his issues with the developers.

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odod
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Re: Tantacrul Dorico video

Post by odod »

i must agree at some point with tantacrul, although i'd really want it .. but i will kept Sibelius and Finale all the time for my composition needs.
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benwiggy
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Re: Tantacrul Dorico video

Post by benwiggy »

I agree with Florian that his flounderings were somewhat disingenuous, considering he claimed to have followed the Dorico blog, watched videos and read forums. I find his final conclusion that he prefers Sibelius, whose interface he gave a much greater panning, curious, unless perhaps first impressions aren't everything after all.

In any case, the Dorico team have now (3.5) grouped the Note Entry icons by function, and added a dialog to tell you that you need a time sig before you can add bars. So they have listened and heeded as much as they think is valid or possible for now.

But if Finale is your daily driver, then you've forsaken the notion of interface design as a significant concept to your workflow. :lol:

mducharme
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Re: Tantacrul Dorico video

Post by mducharme »

John Ruggero wrote:
25 Apr 2020, 19:35
I laughed out loud during the buttons to activate buttons to activate buttons episode
There is actually a good reason for the "activate buttons to activate buttons". What the first checkbox does is tells Dorico that you wish to override the option vs. using the engraving defaults. If the option is a simple off or on option, there is then a second control which tells Dorico whether you wish the option to be forced off or forced on. If they were to simply remove the first checkbox that tells you if the option is overridden, then you would have no way of knowing, if you changed the default engraving settings in Dorico for beaming, whether that instance was manually overridden or whether it would follow the defaults and use the new defaults if you change them.

Maybe there is a better UI/UX way of showing that that feature is overridden but they still need to show it somehow, and allow removing the override. It is very common for Dorico users that they will first override cases where they do not like what Dorico does, then discover there is a setting that handles such things automatically, and then want to remove the overrides as they are now unnecessary and could get in the way instead.
John Ruggero wrote:
25 Apr 2020, 19:35
And when a UX designer with years of music notation software experience misses key elements in a program after 8 months of study and use, one wonders whose fault that really is.
The big thing with Dorico is that you really have to use the keyboard to use it efficiently and effectively. If he did use the keyboard he would realize there are much better solutions to many of the issues he pointed out. If you only use the mouse and point and click, then you lose a lot of the power of Dorico. Somebody pointed out it would be like trying to use the mouse to write a letter instead of typing the letter on a keyboard, and I agree with that. He seems to be stuck on the mouse and I'm not really clear why. Things that he complained about (like the inability to paste on an offbeat) are easy to do in two seconds on the keyboard, even faster than he can do in Sibelius. However, because he seems to be allergic to the keyboard and uses the mouse instead for everything, he completely misses those options.

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