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Re: Double-dotted half note in 7/8
Posted: 11 Dec 2021, 21:58
by NeeraWM
Anders Hedelin wrote: ↑10 Dec 2021, 12:35
While the double-dotted note may be useful for the reason mentioned by John, it only works for 7/x measures, not for 5/x ones. The following is an attempt to fill out that gap in traditional rhythmic notation:
x-dots.JPG
"x-ing" a note adds a quarter of its value, x being half a dot. (We might be grateful to the inventor of this notation that he/she didn't decide on literally
half dots).
I find this brilliant!
Who is the inventor of this x-dot and where is it documented?
Re: Double-dotted half note in 7/8
Posted: 11 Dec 2021, 22:57
by Anders Hedelin
I'll come back to you when I've checked this out. Glad that you liked it.
Re: Double-dotted half note in 7/8
Posted: 12 Dec 2021, 15:27
by Fred G. Unn
Anders Hedelin wrote: ↑10 Dec 2021, 12:35
While the double-dotted note may be useful for the reason mentioned by John, it only works for 7/x measures, not for 5/x ones. The following is an attempt to fill out that gap in traditional rhythmic notation:
...
"x-ing" a note adds a quarter of its value, x being half a dot. (We might be grateful to the inventor of this notation that he/she didn't decide on literally
half dots).
There have been other proposals for x-dots and +-dots too. Here's Read's "Music Notation" pg 123.
Re: Double-dotted half note in 7/8
Posted: 12 Dec 2021, 15:47
by Anders Hedelin
Interesting. What I miss is not so much adding a third of the value, but an eighth of it, making it possible to have one note with the duration of 9/16, 9/8 etc.
I wouldn't like to propose a new sign though - I'll let others find or invent that.
Re: Double-dotted half note in 7/8
Posted: 12 Dec 2021, 16:04
by Anders Hedelin
Personally I prefer the x to the + because it can straddle a staff line without becoming illegible (the + can't).
Re: Double-dotted half note in 7/8
Posted: 13 Dec 2021, 10:02
by Callasmaniac
NeeraWM wrote: ↑11 Dec 2021, 21:58
Anders Hedelin wrote: ↑10 Dec 2021, 12:35
While the double-dotted note may be useful for the reason mentioned by John, it only works for 7/x measures, not for 5/x ones. The following is an attempt to fill out that gap in traditional rhythmic notation:
x-dots.JPG
"x-ing" a note adds a quarter of its value, x being half a dot. (We might be grateful to the inventor of this notation that he/she didn't decide on literally
half dots).
I find this brilliant!
Who is the inventor of this x-dot and where is it documented?
Here is a lengthy explanation; but in *Finnish* (use Google translate):
https://medium.com/@nuottin0rtti?p=febe3f987a30 . (X:n tarina) In short, Paavo Heininen used this x-marking already in 50s (learned it in Darmstadt). Later, his pupils in SibAcademy began to use it, too (Einojuhani Rautavaara, Kalevi Aho, Magnus Lindberg et al.).
Re: Double-dotted half note in 7/8
Posted: 13 Dec 2021, 11:45
by Anders Hedelin
Thanks a lot, Callasmaniac, for the extensive info! I didn't know about the Darmstadt connection, but that certainly gives some weight to it.
I'm waiting for a possible comment from Norway, where I saw the x-dot for the first time. Maybe that will add something to the picture.
Re: Double-dotted half note in 7/8
Posted: 18 Dec 2021, 17:28
by OCTO
Callasmaniac wrote: ↑13 Dec 2021, 10:02
Here is a lengthy explanation; but in *Finnish* (use Google translate):
https://medium.com/@nuottin0rtti?p=febe3f987a30 . (X:n tarina) In short, Paavo Heininen used this x-marking already in 50s (learned it in Darmstadt). Later, his pupils in SibAcademy began to use it, too (Einojuhani Rautavaara, Kalevi Aho, Magnus Lindberg et al.).
Right, I have seen 5/4 in Rautavaara's music.