slurs on triplestops +

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MichelRE
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Joined: 07 Aug 2021, 17:11

slurs on triplestops +

Post by MichelRE »

I'm trying to formulate a feature request for Dorico regarding how it treats slurs in certain contexts, notably, with string triplestops and quadruple.

However I'm needing some help in finding exactly what the ideal settings should be by default for those situations.

The first example is a quadruple stop, and how Dorico automatically places that slur. Obviously, it's unacceptable. Finale really does no better, I don't know how Sibelius or Musescore handle this type of slur.

in a) and b) I adjusted the slurs two different ways.

a) only lowered the end point to just below stem-tip distance. I don't particularly like this as the slur's starting point is too far (too low) from the initial notes of the chord.
b) here I adjusted both starting and ending points without touching the curvature of the slur. again, not ideal.

So how would the engraving gurus handle this example?

The third measure shows part of the problem. This is how Dorico places the slur by default when the note range isn't quite as wide... but notice how widening the range in the 4th measure now completely uglifies (a neologism that deserves to exist!) the slur, putting the end point completely at the wrong place.

Again, I tried two "fixes", but am not sure that either is really ideal.
c) the start point is too low to my eye. and I'm not sure about the end point being stem-aligned.
d) I brought the start point a bit closer to the notehead, and moved the end point a bit to the right, but again, I'm not really convinced. I also had to tweak the curvature a tiny bit as it was oddly shaped and irregular.

Thoughts? Suggestions? Improvements?
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John Ruggero
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Re: slurs on triplestops +

Post by John Ruggero »

b an d look fine to me.

This is just another example of the trouble that Finale and apparently also Dorico have with "steep slurs" see viewtopic.php?f=2&t=861&sid=8c8fef343ad ... c759b15088

As you mention, shifting over a little often works well even without reshaping the slur at b. So this would appear to be something that wouldn't be that difficult for the programmers to implement.
Last edited by John Ruggero on 05 Dec 2022, 02:45, edited 1 time in total.
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MichelRE
Posts: 251
Joined: 07 Aug 2021, 17:11

Re: slurs on triplestops +

Post by MichelRE »

thank-you for your response.
I've tried to post this "feature request" on the Dorico forum in as logical a manner as possible. I guess now it's a simple case of waiting to see what comes of it.
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OCTO
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Re: slurs on triplestops +

Post by OCTO »

A very good taking it up, MichelRE!

I have been struggling with slurs and grace notes for years. There is basically no software doing it correctly. The slur settings should be different from the normal note slur settings, I mean, the software engine should use another algorithm for implementing the curve. One of the tricks is, maybe, to add more spacing when a slur is applied.

And your example is a very simple one, I am having problems constantly with any more complex grace-note slurs.
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MichelRE
Posts: 251
Joined: 07 Aug 2021, 17:11

Re: slurs on triplestops +

Post by MichelRE »

OCTO wrote: 13 Dec 2022, 09:18 A very good taking it up, MichelRE!
Thank-you.
The team at Dorico are aware of the issue, and from their comments, it's something they are working on.
Yes, it would seem logical to apply a slightly different algorithm when dealing with slurs and grace notes. Maybe that's what they are working on integrating? We will have to wait and see.
OCTO wrote: 13 Dec 2022, 09:18 And your example is a very simple one, I am having problems constantly with any more complex grace-note slurs.
And THIS is the most frustrating thing! My examples ARE simple, and pop up continuously in my scores. I write a lot of string music, and include lots of multi-stopped chords written this way. Which means I'm constantly having to adjust slurs. For the very simplest cases of slurs/grace notes.

I simply can't imagine what it would be like with more complex cases. So far I've been lucky and haven't really come across any in my music.
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