Margins

Discuss the rules of notation, standard notation practices, efficient notation practices and graphic design.
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Hector Pascal
Posts: 94
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 23:15

Margins

Post by Hector Pascal »

Hi all,

When formatting my scores, I like 1.5cm page margins on all 4 sides of my A4 page size.

I find it interesting that my software (Finale) lets the piano brackets occupy space in the margin by default. I choose to move the system margins in so that the piano brackets keep inside the page margin. This is my way of making sure that I keep the full 1.5cm page margin free for A3 paper booklet making later on.

Do any of you folks keep piano braces etc within the page margins? Of course, it means that the systems are a little bit shorter...

Cheerio,
Hector.
benwiggy
Posts: 835
Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 19:42

Re: Margins

Post by benwiggy »

On my shelf, I can find several plate engraved scores where the left margin (from page edge to the staff lines) is equal** to the right margin (from the staff lines to the page edge). The piano braces do extend inside the margin.

Of course, some scores have larger margins on the Outer sides than the Inner ones; so where "the margin" is defined is unknown and arbitrary. (You could simply define your left margin to be larger than 15mm.)
Hector Pascal wrote: 05 Feb 2023, 05:07 This is my way of making sure that I keep the full 1.5cm page margin free for A3 paper booklet making later on.
Are you talking about 'creep'? As sheets are added to a booklet, the inner sheets 'stick out' (or rather, each added sheet sits further back, by the distance of the paper's thickness). If you trim the fore-edge, then your inner pages will have smaller outer margins than the outer sheets. Professional imposition software will compensate for this 'creep' by adjusting the position of the inner pages, moving them towards the centre slightly.


** Within tolerances for trimming and folding. Mechanical processes can usually get within 1.5mm.
Hector Pascal
Posts: 94
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 23:15

Re: Margins

Post by Hector Pascal »

Thanks, benwiggy! BTW, I am a fan of your booklet making python script. I tend to set creep to 0.5cm. I have a laptop which I maintain on an old OS so that I can still use your python script lol. I wish I could work out how to run your creation on Big Sur or Monterey!

Thanks again,
Hector.
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John Ruggero
Posts: 2453
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 14:25
Location: Raleigh, NC USA

Re: Margins

Post by John Ruggero »

Regarding the position of the braces, it may be standard for the left and right bar lines to define the margins and for other items like braces and instrument labels etc. to be allowed into the left margin since the latter often can't follow an even margin. Of course in a solo piano piece, the braces can align exactly with the margin, but I follow the Finale default and have the braces in the margin to maximize space.
Last edited by John Ruggero on 11 Feb 2023, 22:46, edited 1 time in total.
M1 Mac mini (OS 12.4), Dorico, Finale 25.5, GPO 4, Affinity Publisher 2, SmartScore 64 Pro, JW Plug-ins, TG Tools, Keyboard maestro

http://www.cantilenapress.com
Hector Pascal
Posts: 94
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 23:15

Re: Margins

Post by Hector Pascal »

Thanks, John :)
benwiggy
Posts: 835
Joined: 11 Apr 2016, 19:42

Re: Margins

Post by benwiggy »

Hector Pascal wrote: 06 Feb 2023, 00:00 Thanks, benwiggy! BTW, I am a fan of your booklet making python script. I tend to set creep to 0.5cm. I have a laptop which I maintain on an old OS so that I can still use your python script lol. I wish I could work out how to run your creation on Big Sur or Monterey!
You don't need to maintain an old OS: python2 scripts will run up to Monterey 12.3; after which, you can install python 2, and they will keep working. Or install python3 and use my newer python3 scripts.

Surely 0.5mm? Half a centimetre for creep would be massive!
swetom2011
Posts: 27
Joined: 01 Oct 2022, 06:09
Location: Germany

Re: Margins

Post by swetom2011 »

Before retirement, I used Acrobat professional for everything related to pdf processing. I've the same experience regarding margins mentioned above. Preparing multipage parts for the musicians in our orchestra I'm often affected by the problem with too large margins in booklet printing.

A simple way to partially solve the problem is to crop the pages before printing. The tool in using is BRISS ( is free). The tool support multipage crop.
https://briss.sourceforge.net/

The cropping is a "real" crop, not just a frame as in Acrobat. You can make the margins as small as you want. The resulting cropped file does not necessarily correspond to a standard page size but this is solved by printing, with minimum margins, to a "new" PDF.

Being retired, I find Adobe professional to expensive so I use Kofax PowerPDF instead (1/5 of the Adobe price but have the same features).

In Power PDF, you can control the print layout better through imposition including margin, creep and gutter, see below
https://docshield.kofax.com/PowerPDF/en ... tings.html

Both programs run on Windows and Mac. Briss also on Linux but I'm not sure for PowerPDF.
Hector Pascal
Posts: 94
Joined: 17 Oct 2021, 23:15

Re: Margins

Post by Hector Pascal »

Thanks benwiggy and swetom2011 :)
Yes, Ben I meant to say "creep = 0.5 # in points". I will have another try at using it on Big Sur. I have it working on Mojave no prob.
Thanks swetom2011, I love exploring these alternatives to the big brand software. Many thanks!

cheerio,
Hector.
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