Optical spacing

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OCTO
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Optical spacing

Post by OCTO » 10 Sep 2018, 11:30

When I look at this example, I feel that the second grace note is to much close to the main note.
Interestingly, the spacing (stem-to-stem) is correct, yet I can't remove my feeling that the spacing is improper.
How do you look at it?

This is done in Finale.
graces.png
graces.png (26.28 KiB) Viewed 412 times
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Finale 25 • Sibelius 8 • MuseScore 2 • Logic Pro X • Ableton Live 9 • Digital Performer 9 /// OS X El Capitan, (side system: Debian 9, Windows 7)

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tisimst
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by tisimst » 10 Sep 2018, 11:46

Unquestionably, the second grace note and the main note look too close together, but it should only need a small re-allocation of spacing to give it enough air on both sides.
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MalteM
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by MalteM » 10 Sep 2018, 11:46

LilyPond agrees:
lily2.png
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lily1.png
lily1.png (14.04 KiB) Viewed 409 times

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OCTO
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by OCTO » 10 Sep 2018, 19:57

MalteM wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 11:46
LilyPond agrees:
The same example, is it LP default?
So interesting, LP moves the note to make optical illusion of proper spacing.

How about other programs, particularly Dorico (default)?
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MalteM
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by MalteM » 10 Sep 2018, 20:03

Yes, that’s LilyPond’s default spacing.

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tisimst
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by tisimst » 10 Sep 2018, 23:41

Here are some surprising results...

Dorico 2.0:
dorico-2-default-grace-optical-spacing.png
dorico-2-default-grace-optical-spacing.png (23.76 KiB) Viewed 378 times
Sibelius 8.5:
sibelius-8.5-default-grace-optical-spacing.png
sibelius-8.5-default-grace-optical-spacing.png (55.26 KiB) Viewed 378 times
Musescore 2.3:
musescore-2.3-default-grace-optical-spacing.png
musescore-2.3-default-grace-optical-spacing.png (23.19 KiB) Viewed 378 times
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OCTO
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by OCTO » 11 Sep 2018, 06:37

In my opinion Dorico has the worst output here.
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MalteM
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by MalteM » 11 Sep 2018, 11:15

I agree, but MuseScore isn’t really better. I’m a bit surprised that only Sibelius and LilyPond do optical spacing correctly here …

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OCTO
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by OCTO » 11 Sep 2018, 12:07

MalteM wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 11:15
I agree, but MuseScore isn’t really better. I’m a bit surprised that only Sibelius and LilyPond do optical spacing correctly here …
Yes, but in my opinion Sibelius has its own spacing issue. To much space for grace notes, and also very strangely main notes. Just, I don't get it.
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Schonbergian
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Re: Optical spacing

Post by Schonbergian » 11 Sep 2018, 15:29

Sibelius chokes and dies as soon as you throw anything into the spacing engine other than notes. Lyrics, in particular, never fail to screw up the look of the page. Amazing that it hasn't been improved after all this time.

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