Optical spacing

Recommendations concerning notation and publishing software in a non-partisan environment.
OCTO
Posts: 1309
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Optical spacing

Post by OCTO »

When I look at this example, I feel that the second grace note is to much close to the main note.
Interestingly, the spacing (stem-to-stem) is correct, yet I can't remove my feeling that the spacing is improper.
How do you look at it?

This is done in Finale.
graces.png
graces.png (26.28 KiB) Viewed 5486 times
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2019 • MuseScore 2+3 • Logic Pro X • Ableton Live 9+10 • Digital Performer 9 /// OS X El Capitan, (side system: Debian 9, Windows 10)

User avatar
tisimst
Posts: 338
Joined: 08 Oct 2015, 17:57
Location: UT, USA
Contact:

Re: Optical spacing

Post by tisimst »

Unquestionably, the second grace note and the main note look too close together, but it should only need a small re-allocation of spacing to give it enough air on both sides.
Music Typeface Designer & Engraver - LilyPond | Sibelius | Finale | MuseScore | Dorico | SMuFL | Inkscape | FontForge
http://www.musictypefoundry.com

MalteM
Posts: 40
Joined: 07 Aug 2018, 18:26

Re: Optical spacing

Post by MalteM »

LilyPond agrees:
lily2.png
lily2.png (15.47 KiB) Viewed 5483 times
lily1.png
lily1.png (14.04 KiB) Viewed 5483 times

OCTO
Posts: 1309
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: Optical spacing

Post by OCTO »

MalteM wrote:
10 Sep 2018, 11:46
LilyPond agrees:
The same example, is it LP default?
So interesting, LP moves the note to make optical illusion of proper spacing.

How about other programs, particularly Dorico (default)?
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2019 • MuseScore 2+3 • Logic Pro X • Ableton Live 9+10 • Digital Performer 9 /// OS X El Capitan, (side system: Debian 9, Windows 10)

MalteM
Posts: 40
Joined: 07 Aug 2018, 18:26

Re: Optical spacing

Post by MalteM »

Yes, that’s LilyPond’s default spacing.

User avatar
tisimst
Posts: 338
Joined: 08 Oct 2015, 17:57
Location: UT, USA
Contact:

Re: Optical spacing

Post by tisimst »

Here are some surprising results...

Dorico 2.0:
dorico-2-default-grace-optical-spacing.png
dorico-2-default-grace-optical-spacing.png (23.76 KiB) Viewed 5452 times
Sibelius 8.5:
sibelius-8.5-default-grace-optical-spacing.png
sibelius-8.5-default-grace-optical-spacing.png (55.26 KiB) Viewed 5452 times
Musescore 2.3:
musescore-2.3-default-grace-optical-spacing.png
musescore-2.3-default-grace-optical-spacing.png (23.19 KiB) Viewed 5452 times
Music Typeface Designer & Engraver - LilyPond | Sibelius | Finale | MuseScore | Dorico | SMuFL | Inkscape | FontForge
http://www.musictypefoundry.com

OCTO
Posts: 1309
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: Optical spacing

Post by OCTO »

In my opinion Dorico has the worst output here.
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2019 • MuseScore 2+3 • Logic Pro X • Ableton Live 9+10 • Digital Performer 9 /// OS X El Capitan, (side system: Debian 9, Windows 10)

MalteM
Posts: 40
Joined: 07 Aug 2018, 18:26

Re: Optical spacing

Post by MalteM »

I agree, but MuseScore isn’t really better. I’m a bit surprised that only Sibelius and LilyPond do optical spacing correctly here …

OCTO
Posts: 1309
Joined: 05 Oct 2015, 06:52
Location: Sweden

Re: Optical spacing

Post by OCTO »

MalteM wrote:
11 Sep 2018, 11:15
I agree, but MuseScore isn’t really better. I’m a bit surprised that only Sibelius and LilyPond do optical spacing correctly here …
Yes, but in my opinion Sibelius has its own spacing issue. To much space for grace notes, and also very strangely main notes. Just, I don't get it.
Freelance Composer. Self-Publisher.
Finale 25.5 • Sibelius 2019 • MuseScore 2+3 • Logic Pro X • Ableton Live 9+10 • Digital Performer 9 /// OS X El Capitan, (side system: Debian 9, Windows 10)

Schonbergian
Posts: 219
Joined: 03 Feb 2017, 02:25
Location: Toronto

Re: Optical spacing

Post by Schonbergian »

Sibelius chokes and dies as soon as you throw anything into the spacing engine other than notes. Lyrics, in particular, never fail to screw up the look of the page. Amazing that it hasn't been improved after all this time.

Post Reply