Dense page

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OCTO
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Dense page

Post by OCTO »

Here is the last page from a violin sonata.
1. It is extreme dense. The engraver was probably enforced to do this: there is no rest in violin part, and it is very heavy to learn by heart.
2. Despite its density it is perfectly readable. I even enjoyed playing from it. Of course some things are on the edge of legibility.

Any comment?
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RMK
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Re: Dense page

Post by RMK »

What is the original page size?
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OCTO
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Re: Dense page

Post by OCTO »

It is definitely bigger than A4/Letter, something close to B4. I don't have it now to check.
But I guess that the stave size is between 6.5-7 mm.
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erelievonen
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Re: Dense page

Post by erelievonen »

This page is indeed quite an engraving tour de force.
In spite of the extreme density, there are quite frequent small cues from the piano part - sometimes just one note - on separate, tiny staves.
I am curious, Octo, since you have played this piece, were all those small cues necessary? Were they helpful, worth all the trouble of squeezing them in? Would the violin part have been usable also without them?
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OCTO
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Re: Dense page

Post by OCTO »

erelievonen wrote: were all those small cues necessary? Were they helpful, worth all the trouble of squeezing them in? Would the violin part have been usable also without them?
This piece is one of the most difficult to play together (I haven't played some Ferneyhough, though!), and I can say, not 100% necessary to have piano there (I guess that was the composer's idea), since it takes so enormous time to set it properly together.
The last page is here:
https://youtu.be/ROKMp4iemUc?t=23m22s

Interestingly, the second movement starts like this:
https://youtu.be/ROKMp4iemUc?t=8m49s
Anyone wants to guess what is the rhythm that is played by piano?
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Knut
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Re: Dense page

Post by Knut »

OCTO wrote:Anyone wants to guess what is the rhythm that is played by piano?
I have no idea, but it is indeed a very beautiful piece!
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OCTO
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Re: Dense page

Post by OCTO »

Knut wrote:
OCTO wrote:Anyone wants to guess what is the rhythm that is played by piano?
I have no idea, but it is indeed a very beautiful piece!
As far as I remember, it is a quintuplet of :2 that starts with :2r :
|----5----|
:2r :2 :2 :2 :2

I think that Enesco wanted to create, or better to say, to notate improvisation. Everything is so improvisational, yet very accurate.
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John Ruggero
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Re: Dense page

Post by John Ruggero »

This one amazing page of music inspires a number of comments:

1. Apropos of another thread, the treble clefs are to me very graceful and generally upright. One sees that, being hand engraving, they are tilted at slightly different angles, as mentioned by Knut. The clefs for the cues are in a somewhat different style and not as nice.
2. The cues seem to be very intelligently done, and the result of experience in playing the piece. This must be the composer's work.
3. I have never seen the large flat-headed comma-like symbols, one of which cuts through an arpeggio symbol and I have no idea what they mean. Some kind of wild gliss.? And the markings bsf and bF etc.?
4. Spacing has forced the accidentals very close to many of the note heads and stems in the 16th passages. With the capabilities of computer engraving, would one now reduce note size for these passages?
5. 4 before 52 This beaming seems counter-intuitive. Is it an attempt to keep the motion going through the rests? In general, the decisions about the "expressive" beaming as at 54 are interesting. When he breaks the secondary beam, he seems to be indicating that the last two 16ths should be felt as pickups.
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OCTO
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Re: Dense page

Post by OCTO »

John Ruggero wrote: I have never seen the large flat-headed comma-like symbols, one of which cuts through an arpeggio symbol and I have no idea what they mean. Some kind of wild gliss.?
That seems to be pretty unique, I have never seen it in other scores. I played it as an extreme portamento, enforced. You have to play it always using the previous finger.
John Ruggero wrote:And the markings bsf and bF etc.?
I think it stands for "ben". Obviously the composer wants that violinist breaks his violin at the last page. :o
John Ruggero wrote:4 before 52 This beaming seems counter-intuitive. Is it an attempt to keep the motion going through the rests?
Agree. It seems to be more a philosophical beaming.
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Re: Dense page

Post by NicholasG »

I love this violin sonata engraving, it"s pure "Eye Candy". I'd wager that the formatting of this piece took a lot of thought. Well balanced.
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