NUME a New Understanding of Musical Expression

[mrmike25]

Tab for guitar is really for beginning students.

This is true and I never suggested that NUME was intended to replace CWN. If you look at the videos on https://mikeellismusicinstruction.com/Nume/index.html you will see one of my students at age eight and nine playing the piano parts to two songs by the Beatles, having used the NUME method at that very young age to learn them. The "Martha My Dear" piece is pretty involved and he plays it all the way through with the recording.

Also, on that page you can see the quote from Professional Music Instructor Dan Anderson who sent the following comment about NUME. "Your NUME notation system is so sensible it makes me feel guilty for putting kids through our convoluted traditional system." Notice, he said kids.

We learned to talk before we learned to read and write and if I can get a student to play music they love before learning CWN, it just might entice them to give CWN a try. I totally advocate learning CWN and I always told my students they should definitely learn to read notes the conventional way. It was just faster and more fun to be able to play before learning the complexities of CWN.

Thanks again, Fred.

[benwiggy]

We learned to talk before we learned to read and write and if I can get a student to play music they love before learning CWN, it just might entice them to give CWN a try.

To continue the comparison with learning to read or write: "If I can get a student to recite a poem they love before learning to read, it just might entice them to give reading a try." I'm no expert in pedagogy, but that sounds absurd.

I never suggested that NUME was intended to replace CWN.

I'm sure you'll appreciate that learning one system, and then being told to learn a completely different one is confusing and unnecessary.

It's perfectly possible to teach children the beginnings of music notation from the age of 5. By the age of 7, they can be playing instruments with confidence. At 9, I was at a choir school, where I was sight-reading, learning and performing new music every day.

While I appreciate the effort you've put into this, and know how disappointing any criticism must be, any new system is going to undergo a lot of scrutiny, with a high bar to acceptance. What does this achieve that CWN doesn't? Does this teach them about keys, chords and harmony? Does this teach them about music, or is it just a piano-roll aid to knocking out some pieces by rote?

[mrmike25]

To continue the comparison with learning to read or write: "If I can get a student to recite a poem they love before learning to read, it just might entice them to give reading a try." I'm no expert in pedagogy, but that sounds absurd.

Fred, it seems to me that you don't have any children. Mother Goose rhymes made kids smile and this certainly did NOT inhibit them from wanting to learn to read. "Goodnight Moon" was a favorite of one of my children and he couldn't wait to learn to read so he could read it himself. Now you may not agree with my premise, but to call it absurd is a bit overboard.

I'm sure you'll appreciate that learning one system, and then being told to learn a completely different one is confusing and unnecessary.

So then, students who speak and read English and want to learn to speak and read Spanish should be told that it is "confusing and unnecessary?"

It's perfectly possible to teach children the beginnings of music notation from the age of 5. By the age of 7, they can be playing instruments with confidence.

This is the whole point of NUME. Young Ethan started lessons in June of 2012 and the video of him playing "Lady Madonna" was posted to YouTube IN 2012. That's less than SIX MONTHS, while you say beginning at age 5 they can be playing with confidence by age 7. Two years versus six months? I rest my case.

While I appreciate the effort you've put into this, and know how disappointing any criticism must be, any new system is going to undergo a lot of scrutiny, with a high bar to acceptance. What does this achieve that CWN doesn't? Does this teach them about keys, chords and harmony? Does this teach them about music, or is it just a piano-roll aid to knocking out some pieces by rote?

First of all, criticism helps foster advances, so it is not disappointing. Secondly, it is not solely for piano, as it is interval based and can be used for all other instruments. But lastly, for you to use terms like "absurd" and "piano-roll aid" show me that you are not being constructive and are being closed-minded that the way you learned is the "only" way music should be learned. Therefore, let's just call it a day. Each reply I've made to you has ended with "thank you" but not this time. For me, this conversation is over.

[RMK]

It's my guess that mrmike25 is a tech bro with limited knowledge of music beyond three-chord pop songs. He certainly does not understand how accomplished musicians read music or even the basics of music theory. I doubt he has seen (or heard) a five part Bach fugue or a Mozart symphony.

I'm sure he has delusions of starting a billion dollar unicorn that will revolutionize musical pedagogy. God help us if he does.

I do agree with him on one point: this discussion is over.

[MichelRE]

I started piano the traditional way, at age 6.
within 6 months I was playing a Chopin prelude, the next year some Beethoven.

What I'm seeing here is, and I agree 100% with RMK, an "inventor" who doesn't understand music nor pedagogy inventing an answer to a question nobody asked.

[Fred G. Unn]

His comment about my kids pissed me off so much I wrote a response, then thought better of it and deleted it, along with my other comments in the thread. Anyway, I'm in full agreement with RMK and MichelRE, so best of luck to him getting anyone to adopt his system. Cheers!

Dunning-Kruger.png (1.84 MiB) Viewed 14412 times

[OCTO]

OK

Now notate the first page of Brahms' Symphony No.1.

And force musicians to le-learn notation. Re-educate.

The biggest question ever posed is "What Is the Notation?" -- let us meditate over this and open another topic. Your answers must include Abstract and at least 3000 words per post.

Seriously, since 1900, there have been well over 500 proposals intended to "improve" Western classical music notation, documented by Reed in his 1997 directory, and dozens more invented afterwards.
Stop it. Get some help.