OOLOI - Igor Engraver reborn

[benwiggy]

The creator of Igor Engraver, Peter Bengtson, is creating a new open-source notation project, called Ooloi.

He also provides a history of why Igor Engraver died.

https://www.ooloi.org/home/how-igor-engraver-died

[John Ruggero]

What a story! I wish him better luck this time. Maybe it will be the first GUI program that will give users complete control over both slurs and octave extension lines. But, I couldn't make head or tail out of OOLOI; it's all in computerese. Even the name made alarm bells go off.

[OCTO]

That is absolutely fascinating.

I have sent a message to Peter Bengtson to join in here.

[odod]

Indeed, I have been following Igor Engraver since the very beginning.

[PeterBengtson]

Computerese! I haven’t heard that lovely term in a very long time. I do see what you mean. Many of the blog posts are highly technical at this stage, because they describe the invisible machinery that everything else rests on. The point, of course, is to abstract all that away so that the musical and engraving side can appear clearly.

Like Igor Engraver before it, Ooloi is aimed squarely at high-end engraving. The specific problem it sets out to solve is architectural: being able to scroll smoothly through something like the Elektra recognition scene without freezes, or to insert a note in a dense score and see instant results. That’s the foundation — because engraving precision means little if the system can’t keep up. And after almost 30 years, there are technical solutions available to solve these problems that nobody in engraving is using yet, because of legacy issues. It's high time for a re-imagining.

One of the guiding principles is complete malleability. Slurs, beams, octave lines, ties — none of these are “baked in.” They’re handled by the same extensible architecture as everything else, which means they can be made precise, adjustable, and (if needed) even replaced by alternate engraving modules. In other words, there won’t be hidden limits that force you into one shape of slur or one style of ottava line.

And because adoption depends on it, MusicXML will be central. Whatever one thinks of the format, publishers live by it. If Ooloi can import, repair, and export MusicXML with more tolerance and consistency than current tools, it will have done something genuinely useful.

So yes — there’s “computerese” in the blog right now. But it’s all in service of creating a platform where engravers have both the freedom and the responsiveness that existing tools still don’t deliver.

Happy to answer any engraving-specific questions here as the project evolves — that’s the stage we’re heading toward now.

Oh, and the computerese thing prompted me to write something about the why: https://www.ooloi.org/home/on-feeling-like-the-donald. It's essentially about the difference between doing this to "disrupt" something - or doing it from the computer science angle, to finally get it right. It's high time for the latter.

[Roland_Gurt]

How very interesting! PeterBengtson, it's an honor to have you here, and reading the thoughts on your blog, I'm very impressed by the lucidity and competence they exhibit!

I feel like Dorico was the last big leap in notation software with its fine default output, (semi-)advanced DTP-like layouting mode and incredibly time-saving automation features (condensing, cues, proofreading, cut-outs).

Yet their requirement of catering also to musicians who value playback/MIDI capabilities, as well as maybe sometimes a tendency to facilitate "textbook correct" notation before allowing knowledgeable engravers to go "Beyond Bars" (ahem) might have held them back a bit when it comes to "high-end notation". I trust and respect the rationale of the Dorico developers, but some competition will surely be healthy for all. Especially when it seems to be of such uncompromising nature regarding the fine details of this venerable craft.

How about we collect some wishes that could further elevate notation software in the future?

One that seems to be of course very remarkable with Ooloi is performance in large scores. Another one would be real-time online collaboration on the same score.

The proposed scope of plugin development also has the potential to be exceptional, harking back but possibly surpassing the many plugins most professional Finale or Sibelius users depended on.

An aspect I read out of the Ooloi website is that every single element on the page should be moveable. I would wish to add to that the ability to scale (also stretch along single axes), rotate and maybe even control thickness/outline, or possibly access the vector points of each element – if that is realized, this software could be second-to-none when it comes to contemporary notations (which currently depend on post-production in a vector editing software or are even entirely done that way).

Dear forum members, what are your notational utopias?

[OCTO]

Interesting.
I’ve never met you Peter Bengtson, despite having many mutual friends, including Anders Hillborg. I am, however, from a slightly younger generation.

And yes, I do have some of Anders’s scores made in Igor Engraver at home, i think it is "Cold Heat". I even tested the program once at KMH and really liked it, the on-screen smoothness was amazing at the time. It is a pity the program was abandoned.

As for the last question, I would say my notational utopia would be an AI agent that could convert my handwritten music into SCORE-level engraving quality, with the ease of use of a Markdown editor, like moving the objects around should not disrupt the always-perfect score.

[John Ruggero]

Peter Bengtson, thank you taking my comment in the spirit in which it was given. Although I started "...THE Donald." with some trepidation, it was more helpful in understanding what you are doing. Posts aimed more at musicians than programmers and filled with musical examples would bring musicians on board. Daniel Spreadbury kept potential users posted by means of his clearly written, jargon-free blog posts throughout the early development of Dorico. I am sure that that had a major impact on it initial reception.

In any case, I think that I may be one of the users that you are aiming at. I want complete control over every aspect; no limitations. The two programs that I have used, Finale and Dorico, are fine in their own ways, but constraining. I want freedom, but also want to be free of the tasks that computers can do more efficiently than I can; done in a way that doesn't get in my way.